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Your suggestions for the future potential use of the David Jones building.
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Comment 1 27 Aug 2010, 9:07 AM
demolish it
sway GPT to go ahead with development by putting in susbstantial State and Federal money including scrapping rail line and installing trams. Use St Kilda in Melbourne as a guide.
convince Meyer to take DJs place as the premiere retailer in the development
Comment 1.1 27 Aug 2010, 9:15 AM
I agree with the Myer suggestion. I don't agree with scrapping the rail line - limiting public transport options doesn't support growth (a tram line won't be able to accomodate people who travel into the CBD on the rail line from Maitland and the Central Coast)
Comment 1.1.1 27 Aug 2010, 9:27 AM
P.S demolishing a beautiful building like that would be heart-breaking, we need to maintain what little beauty is left in Newcastle, the building is fully functional it doesn't need to be destroyed and re-built.
Comment 1.1.1.1 29 Aug 2010, 8:09 PM
I agree, keep the shell and turn the building into apartments. The building is typical to be recycled.
Comment 1.1.1.1.1 30 Aug 2010, 8:54 AM
the more apartments thrown up in the CBD the worse the CBD will become - the people who live in those new upper-class over-priced inner city apartment buildings are the kind of people who think "ooo living in the city will be fun" and then complain about the noise! which leads to closing down of various venues and activities that makes a CBD
Comment 1.1.2 29 Aug 2010, 6:41 PM
Saying you need a train line east of Wickham to accomodate "all" the people from Central Coast and Maitland is like saying you need a 10 lane freeway down the middle of Darby Street. At best, there is only one train each day that would not fit into a single bus!
Comment 1.1.3 30 Aug 2010, 1:59 PM
Scrapping the rail line is the answer to Newcastles Cbd redevelopment joining the Honeysuckle & CBD as a whole rather than seperate parts to the city..Wickham tation is only 2-3 km away light rail would be great and will encourage people to live in the heart of the CBD and also bring people to Newcastle from our Foireshore to our harbour the to Hunter St strip & The Shopping centre all in one!!!..
Comment 1.1.4 4 Sep 2010, 7:31 AM
Why have Myers....whats wrong with David Jones? It seems to me that a targeted tenanting strategy designed to attract new and unique businesses across the retail, dining and professional services sectors is required......make it diverse and interesting with active street fronts.
Comment 1.2 27 Aug 2010, 9:26 AM
Tram-trains are an obvious solution with regards to GPT's scapegoating. It is clear that they didn't have the money to go ahead with the project, which is why they withdrew even though the suggestion of Trams in the same corridor (which do not cut off the wharf from the city) were rejected. It is also clear that if they did have the money to build, they were planning to clog up that space with buildings and force people to pay to park in the area.
What to do with the DJs building? The area desparately needs a supermarket and a small shopping centre similar to Stockland Marketown or Junction Fair. There are too many apartment buildings without a decent supermarket to match. The first level of the building could be used as a supermarket. Subsequent levels could be used for other stores.
The whole street need not be developed as one shopping centre, but it could work with a number of different shops and cafes. At least we'll keep something unique about our city in the age of mass produced shopping centres.
Comment 1.2.1 27 Aug 2010, 1:19 PM
Didn't have the money! You really are kidding yourself along with rest of the conspiracy theorists in the town. This week GPT declared a $140mill 6 mth profit, confirmed it has in place new, guaranteed credit facilties with its banks to allow it to continue its investments and as a result of the Newcastle decision, has fast tracked 2 projects in Sydney and Victoria using some of the funds it had set aside for Newcastle. These, I am sorry to tell you, are the FACTS.
Comment 1.2.1.1 28 Aug 2010, 2:44 AM
A company making profit does not mean that it is willing to spend its money on a particular investment. You can quote their figures all you like, but the figures are useless unless the money was placed where their mouths were.
Now, for a company to hold a city hostage, the demand being to remove (not add) infrastructure, is quite ridiculous to me, especially when hearing the official reasons for doing so. Consider especially that trams do not block access to the city any more than existing roads, yet keep those who see the longterm importance of transport infrastructure happy.
Here's what more…
Comment 1.2.2 29 Aug 2010, 6:27 PM
Sorry alasko, but that is a conspiracy theory with no basis in fact. If you are correct, GPT would be prosecuted for misleading the market, as well as every shop in the mall. There is no way everybody on the GPT Board and their senior managers would take the risk of going to goal, be fined millions and being disqualified from sitting on a board. There is also no way you could ever keep that secret.
Comment 1.2.2.1 6 Sep 2010, 3:31 PM
Saying that a company doesnt have money to pay for the investment can mean two things. One, it doesn't have the funds, or two, it doesn't want to invest the funds.
Secondly, this isn't a conspiracy. This is simply an example of a company trying to maximise its influence and reach in an area. GPT took a risk in buying up the hunter street properties, and thought this would be good enough to influence local politics and trade the rail infrastructure in the city for a shopping centre.
This backfired for two reasons. One is that most people realise how more…
Comment 1.2.3 30 Aug 2010, 2:14 PM
Not true in any sense if a company buys 21 buildings in Newcastle CBD spending $100 million dollars and then decides we do not have the money. Cmon realistically the State Govertment and labour and some members of council is to blame for the lack of vision Newcastle CBD future development and the potential it could bring domestically & internationally. As for the David Jones building that is a wake up call Newcastle is screaming out for change a GPT would have a shopping centre plus a unique street called "Hunter" so u have the best of both worlds indoor & outdoor..
Comment 1.3 27 Aug 2010, 4:06 PM
I also say to demolish it before it becomes another Post Office.(It was sold by the Federal Govt. because they new the great cost even then to repair it. If D.J's were demolished the site could be developed into a wonderful city park. It then might take one eyes off the ugly unused rail track.Another sugestion is to just reduce the number of virtually empty trains running daily and develope a 300 ft.wide pedestrian level crossing to the foreshore between Brown St. and Market St.
Comment 1.4 27 Aug 2010, 5:01 PM
It's inappropriate for State & Federal money to prop up private business.
However maintaining and improving infrastructure is part of the governments job. The heavy rail should not be removed without a improved public transport system being implemented.
My question is who owns the David Jones sight?
Comment 1.4.1 30 Aug 2010, 2:29 PM
The heavy rail is fine for use to Wickham train station Newcastle needs more people living in the CBD and increasing revenue for local businesses. GPT vision is to do that..As for david Jones the buildiong needs repairs It leaks water i have seen buckets all over the building especially in heavy rain.Redevelopment is crucial !
Comment 1.5 30 Aug 2010, 2:03 PM
Yes sway Gpt to move ahead is the logical answer and Newcastle being like Melbourne known for arts & Music
Comment 2 27 Aug 2010, 9:24 AM
Something equally as large and commercial as David Jones is the only option to save this from being a huge set-back in attracting people into the CBD.
Such as; Myer, Kmart, Target, Big W.
I would like to see the building split between a department store like Target and an electronics store like Harvey Norman, neither of these stores or any stores like them exist in the CBD and its very inconvenient. The mall (like any mall) needs to offer people a one-stop place for everything they need but at the moment the mall only offers clothing stores.
Comment 3 27 Aug 2010, 9:46 AM
Why ask me - I'm only a ratepayer? You should ask the people who run the city. I don't know their names, but they call themselves Save Our Rail.
Comment 3.1 27 Aug 2010, 12:28 PM
You're too generous Gordon, A few old Ma and Pa Kettles holding up multi million dollar developers who go in the backdoor to the Minister when ever they choose? Save Our Rail pays dearly from their own pockets to represent the views of the people who choose to attend their meetings. The developers spend millions of your taxes in their greed to gain control of public lands. They knocked down Newcastle Hospital, don't be fooled again.
Comment 3.1.1 27 Aug 2010, 1:23 PM
So your basic argument is that people and organisations with private property are corrupt...interesting concept. I'm sold on your idea.
Lets give the deeds to our homes to those freedom fighters of Save Our Rail, they know best, they can protect us from ourselves and from a life of corruption.
Thank you Observer - you are very wise!
Comment 3.1.2 29 Aug 2010, 6:46 PM
So observer, how many jobs is Save Our Rail going to create for my children in Newcastle? What is it that Save Our Rail wanted to stop? That's right, an average of 26 people on each train would have to get off a train at Wickham to walk 30m to get on a tram or a bus?? Can you understand that most people would say that is a reasonable price to pay for 10,000 new jobs in Newcastle and saving the CBD. Actually, why is it so bad to walk a few metres from a train to a bus and then it is OK to walk 500m from Newcastle Station to the mall??
Comment 3.1.3 30 Aug 2010, 2:39 PM
Observer obviously u havent had a business in the Newcastle CBD or asked people who work and have property in Newcastle. They have invested money believing that change was coming but now there dreams are turned to nightmares u talk about Newcastle hospital we have a fully intergrated hospital called JOhn Hunter & The Mater. GPt had a vision to change our city into a thriving district attracting more people to live in the heart of Newcastle and create more tourism.They have my taxes well invested !!Change YES WE CAN
Comment 3.1.4 30 Aug 2010, 4:33 PM
If SOR were Ma and Pa Kettle, then GPT were Mr Burns from the Simpsons.
Comment 4 27 Aug 2010, 9:50 AM
Convert it into Australia's biggest night club, 3 levels of loud music, flowing alcohol and more drunk young things than you could poke a stick at. There could even be themed levels. Like a dress up level, where everyone gets to mix and match their outfits throughout the night, with the left over DJ's clothes stock or a lynx sponsored "gentlemen only" level, where the only ladies allowed are scantly clad models who bring you your drinks and provide other "professional" services like massages.
Comment 4.1 27 Aug 2010, 9:53 AM
Of course there are associated health risks with such a venture. Particularly to certain inner city residents who would be at much greater risk of heart problems, seeing all these young people out in one place having fun together in the one spot.
Comment 4.2 30 Aug 2010, 6:19 PM
uraok, you are a legend!!
When are you going to run for Lord Mayor, I'd vote you in!
Comment 5 27 Aug 2010, 10:30 AM
The current David Jones building marks the gateway to the CBD retail precinct. Its an icon and is also heritage-listed. Demolishing this building would make little sense. Firstly, lets try to encourage another department store or large retail outlet. Given DJs ideal location at the confluence of Hunter and Scott Street and close to Queens Wharf - why not install a pedestrian rail crossing to Wharf Road, allowing easy pedestrian access to/from the harbour promenade. Think outside the square. Why not encourage a university faculty to use the DJs building, perhaps law courts (note DJs comes with a large carpark).
Comment 5.1 27 Aug 2010, 1:10 PM
What part of the entire debate are you missing?? We had a major retailer and a devloper WITH the money (they have just fast tracked their next project in West Sydney after canning Newcastle)and you talk about walkways over the rail? Light rail into the city and a CBD that flows down to the harbour. Fix this and you are long way to fixing the problem as investores and major retilers will then be able to see a viable, vibrant city and a genuine commercail opportunity
Comment 5.1.1 27 Aug 2010, 2:34 PM
Kilkenny - let them put their money where there mouth is. If the build and operate a 1st class retail mall, people will come by railline. This notion that somehow people walking along the foreshore will miracously decide to shop in town is a myth. They don't walk into town cos there's nothing to attract them. The rail is not blocking them - there are 3 bridges and two road crossings.
Comment 5.1.1.1 27 Aug 2010, 4:40 PM
I can only suggest you open your eyes. The visual impact of heavy rail is as probelmatic as the physical barrier it creates. Level crossings & overhead walk ways are not required with light rail and if you don't have the imagination to see what a beautiful city we could have without fences and barriers between the CBD and the harbour then it must indeed be a dull and narrow world in which you live.
Comment 5.1.1.1.1 29 Aug 2010, 7:37 PM
You're right Kilkenny, its a dull and narrow world I live in here in the beautiful CBD living without having to use a carbon-monoxide spewing car only 2 minutes from the beach, watching dolphins from balcony. Fortunately, it has allowed me to travel to 43 countries, live in Manhattan, and Canada, etc and appreciate what Newcastle has got.
Melbourne is cut off from the river by the heavy rail. The River Yarra cuts the city in half, but most people travel to the city by heavy rail. Of course, we could fill the River Yarra in to make it easier to get across. Why not fill in the harbour to make it easier to get to Stockton. Have you noticed that there are only 2 pedestrain crossings over Wahrf Road between Fannys and Fort Scratchley - the road is the real barrier.
Have a nice day.
Comment 5.1.1.1.1.1 30 Aug 2010, 9:45 AM
City Extra, I am extremely impressed with your travel diary and the fact that you have taken all that time to count 43 different coloured stamps in your passports. I am even more impressed with your address and the fact that you don't need a car like the rest of the serfs who live outside the city centre. I am a lot less impressed with the fact that after all this you try and compare Melbourne City centre with Newcastlle city. In terms of population, geographic restrictions AND benefits, and commercial dynamics like comparing Broome and Hobart. We have unique issues requiring unique solutions.
Comment 5.1.1.1.1.1.1 30 Aug 2010, 10:41 AM
Totally agree. Have also lived in Hobart and visited Broome several times. In terms of unique solutions that are achieveable in the short term (rather than long-term options such as light rail) open your eyes to simple, practical, fast options such as pedestrain crossings. The State Government put a new one in Wollongong CBD 2 years ago, and it was still Honeysuckle Development Corporation and Newcastle City Council policy to open up more crossings up until 2-3 years ago. What about the elevated trains in Chicago and New York? Have you seen the heavy rail cattle trains that pass through the CBD of Rockhampton travelling about 5km/hr with no boomm gates? If we can afford $500m for light rail, why not just drop or elevate the heavy rail line for a lot less.
Regards
Comment 5.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 30 Aug 2010, 11:33 AM
My real concern in all of this is that once again instead of Novocastrians seeking, indeed demanding, the BEST possible solution to the problem, the debate has rapidly moved to "why don't we just accept a second or third best solution" becuase "it's too dear, it will never happen anyway". If we want this city to realise the unbelievable potential we all know it has we should be aiming for transport and city design that incorpoartes world best practice and demaning it NOW. If we accpet the poor cousin options beiing discussed we can be confident the end result will again be garbage. Neil Jamieson's article in the Sat NMH touches on what might be possible so we need to tap the work that has been done and then find a way to make it happen - properly
Comment 5.1.1.1.2 30 Aug 2010, 2:50 PM
Kilkenny on the money!!!
Comment 5.1.1.2 30 Aug 2010, 2:49 PM
City extra there money is the real deal again No company spends $100 million dollars to purchase buildings and then decides we do not have the money to move forward its the politics and the fear of some Newcastle people for Change to a vibrant city.. And as for people walking there is growth in the real estate in apartments for buyers or renters to live in the heart of the CBD which will create more people walking and using public light rail transport and increase revenue for the retailers...
Comment 5.1.1.2.1 30 Aug 2010, 2:59 PM
Agree Patsan, Mayor has often told me that future of City East is residential. Its where I live and encourage more residents. We keep the cafes alive on weekends and nights - not those from more distant suburbs. When GPT purchased properties bit by bit, it never demanded removal of the rail line. Its early concept plan never mentioned it either. Suddenly it all changed as GPTs fortunes were reversed. 50 or so 'Save the Rail' folk do not have enough power to cause the Government to retain the heavy rail. Of course, they don't want to lose votes from the Labour left, but they probably don't have the money to spend on light rail. Lets assume that heavy rail is here for a few years and wsorkl out some compromises.
Comment 5.1.1.2.1.1 30 Aug 2010, 3:19 PM
CE, you underestimate the power of the 50 or so people you mention. Same people peddling different fallacies stopped Nobbys as well. And no, let's not accept any compromise on heavy rail until it becomes part of a confirmed, funded and timetabled plan incorporating light rail and then look at what improvements/compromises might be useful while the real project is being implemented. Acceptance of anyhting less than this will only lead to another "Scoping study" and as a final result of exactly nothing. Accept a half baked "temporary" solution now and that is exactly what the city will end up with permanently. I know it. You know it and for sure and certain the government knows it. Our half baked enterainment centre, half finished city by pass and 2 lane Tourle st bridge are just a few examples..
Comment 5.1.1.2.1.1.1 30 Aug 2010, 4:25 PM
Fix our city and HDC had half baked solutions and hense they were not adopted. The waste of money began here. If you are passionate about the fixing the city the responsibility comes back to people like you to do the following 1/ Stop shopping at Garden City and Charlestown Square and shop in Newcastle, 2/ Start a business in Newcastle CBD, 3/ Stop whinging for the taxpayer for handouts all the time 4/ Use public transport If you and all Newcastle people do at least 2 of the above, the City will be fixed and the taxpayer will be 650 million dollars richer
Comment 5.1.1.2.1.2 30 Aug 2010, 4:21 PM
Agree also City extra I am all for compromise i have done some research and in the 1800s The main train station was the Civic until 1857 when Newcastle Residents called for an extension to build a single line for goods and passenger traffic The Goods yard does not exist anymore No trace now remains of this yard. (In 1880, an additional two platforms were constructed to cater for traffic growth). Now the traffic growth of Newcastle is very minimal compared to the early 1900s..A new vision is needed for Newcastle who will spend money on Newcastle Labor? Govt? My feeling is i dont think so but it is amazing when i talk to people that they are fed up after the bad news of David Jones & GPT the Labor govt is finally starting to decrease in votes.. and maybe we might see a change come March..just adding another thing the lighthouse investement idea scrapped, The kensington nitespot Pending these investments creates employment For Newcastle in the city which would mean people would move here a lot more. Economy is Needed for the CBD
Comment 5.1.1.2.1.2.1 30 Aug 2010, 7:58 PM
All good Patsan mate. Honeysuckle Station was the end of the line in 1857 when the line to Maitland opened. Some bricks from the station platform are still visible at the end of Worth Place (near the new KFC going up). The stationmasters house was on the KFC site. The line was extended only 2 years later in 1859 to current site (where the city hasw been since 1804). The rail-line used to run along the waters' edge. Most of Honeysuckle is reclaimed land, mostly only 2m above sea-level and arguably, should not be developed due to global warming implications. more…
Comment 5.1.1.2.1.2.1.1 1 Sep 2010, 8:13 PM
Yes I agree a meeting should take place maybe with the Hunter Business Chambers also..
Comment 6 27 Aug 2010, 10:41 AM
While the GPT development would have definitely brightened up the CBD and completely changed the dynamic of the city, I'm not sure if we really need another shopping mall; Marketown is expanding, the Junction represents another significant centre, Charlestown shopping square is doubling in size and there's also Kotara. How many shopping meccas do we need for a city who's central population is just under 150,000?
The centre of Town should be a vibrant, active place. People don't visit Byron Bay for the Shopping Mall. Most of the best cities around the world don't have shopping malls at their centre. more…
Comment 6.1 27 Aug 2010, 12:35 PM
Newcastle has little in the way of a People's Palace. A place where anyone, rich or poor can stay the night at small cost and a little work. David Jones would be well suited to this with existing car park and proximity to rail. Residents could be asked to help with cooking and cleaning. There could be a major cafeteria open to the public serving basic meals. Showers and lounge for basic non alcaholic entertainments could make the place an attractive overnight stop.
Comment 6.1.1 30 Aug 2010, 11:08 AM
Agree with the concepts Observer, just not the choice of building (DJ's). There are other options for this idea, i.e. some of the hotels in the CBD like the one opposite Newcastle railway station.
Comment 6.1.2 30 Aug 2010, 3:00 PM
Oberver if u have been to David jones lately it is need of major repairs i shop there every couple of weeks for clothing and it has major water leaks. It hasnt been maintained obviously because they were waiting on the GPT to
re develop the site but that is not going to happen.
A major chain store will not spend the money to fix the building so who owns the building and will they repair the building?? Or will it be another i sore?
Comment 6.2 29 Aug 2010, 9:15 PM
I agree with lots of this. The thing that I can never get over is why everyone worries so much about the CBD.
There are reasons why the nature of places change. In the case of newcastle the 'centre of gravity' of the population is now much farther west than it was in the 70's. In addition to the centres mentioned, Jesmond has expanded during this time, Glendale has grown from nothing and we also have small centres at wallsend and mount hutton. For bulky retail, there is gateshead, hillsborough and kotara. no-one needs to go the city to shop more…
Comment 6.2.1 30 Aug 2010, 7:22 AM
well said!
Comment 6.3 30 Aug 2010, 11:06 AM
Whilst I agree the vast majority of this I do not agree with the demolition of any historical building in the CBD area, such as the DJ's building. I would like to hope that DJ's will remain an integral and central part of the Newcastle CBD for many years to come. Even lighter use shopping precincts need a major retailer as the basis for development of smaller businesses in the same vicinity. People can only visit so many eatery places but by having a few major attractive retailers, that are not just another teenage dress shop, engenders people's minds to more…
Comment 6.3.1 30 Aug 2010, 12:42 PM
There are nice parts to the DJ's building. The car park isn't worth holding onto. The Facade and the art-deco side (opposite the old show case cinema) could be maintained as part of a new building (if done tastefully!).
Comment 7 27 Aug 2010, 2:05 PM
It is such a shame to lose the David Jones Building and small boutique shopping in town.
What is wrong with light rail?
Inner City Newcastle should become a Boutique Village &/or Residential Area in order to revive and save this important part of Newcastle.
Look at The Rocks in Sydney, Mosman, Double Bay & Neutral bay etc. Tourists do not visit major shopping centres and we have them at Charlestown and Kotara anyway. Why not have a boutique village feel to the heart to our City?
Look at how offensive all the beautiful old run-down buildings like the Post Office, etc, have become. These should not be wasted vacant spaces lying dormant for years for vandals to damage.
Something needs to be done asap so that this area does not to go to rack and ruin like Newcastle West did in the past.
Comment 8 27 Aug 2010, 6:07 PM
Whatever happens, please don't let it become another dreadful, ugly, useless and depressing site like the old Store building at the other end of Hunter St. That would be quite a hat trick, the Store, the old Post Office and DJ's.
Trying to fill it piecemeal, with small traders would inevitable lead to this scenario, it is an old and rather delapidated building inside, not at all suitable for small operators.
It is unlikely that a big retailer can be attracted to the site especially as Big W is going in at Markettown. We are already pretty well served for Supermarkets at more…
Comment 9 27 Aug 2010, 6:51 PM
I feel this is now a great opportunity for our city Councillors to have some real cohesion & action to work hard & get this city moving forward, IT IS TIME. OK GPT have moved out of the deal we must pick up where we were before they came on the scene & GET THINGS DONE with the best interests of Newcastle & Novocastrians first & foremost at heart as well as the broader Hunter region. Our city forefathers would be appalled at the Newcastle we have today, a city that has been neglected & not respected by our city councillors & planners. The DJ's building could be any number of uses from residential,uni house, we need tasteful wine/bar eatery's in the city for grown/up responsible adults, an Arthouse cinema,mixed retail- the type that are not in any of the other complexes Gap etc. but maybe factory retail outlets of mixed types. When we have I believe some type of public transport loop ideally tram system Newcastle will attract business in the city if it goes down the Mall especially. I would like to see something like a Chinatown in Newcastle as well.
Comment 10 27 Aug 2010, 7:18 PM
Who cares what GPT's motives were? As much as it a shame that they pulled out, especially when there were new shopfronts and stores appearing and a little bit of life in the mall again there's no point in crying over spilt milk. If GTP are gone they're gone, lets stop wringing our hands and get into the job of looking elsewhere for someone to fill the gap. Another Supermarket/Dept Store would be good like Woollies or Target as per all the other suggestions but who owns the building? If it is GPT and as the N'cle Herald indicated they own half the other shops in town then are they going to be super selective about who they allow in there or sell to? If it's left vacant it will be harder to resurect the city but surely if we stop agonising about it and lobby the powers that be to do something then we might see some action.
I'm for light rail/trams too.
Comment 11 27 Aug 2010, 7:44 PM
The DJ.s building has life in it. It comes with a currently leased car park and therefore should be attractive to other department type stores.
Meyer, Target and others wold be the likely candidates. DJ's may even return if conditions are right. The building owners should offer rental holidays for some years and council should waive rates for a similar period if a suitable tenant is prepared to sign a long term lease
Comment 12 27 Aug 2010, 9:25 PM
The interior is in poor condition. Demolish it, retaining only the facade and rebuild as ground floor commercial with accommodation units above and a roof garden.
Comment 12.1 28 Aug 2010, 9:23 AM
Why not do something new!Retain as much of the building as possible and develop Australia's first Council run Fitness Center with extra large showering and toileting facilities where there is staff hired to keep it tidy.Classes in various styles of fitness's such as aerobics, yoga, and self defense.With the view of the University students coming and all the residential units it would be a great asset to the local community plus visitors.Maybe this also would be attractive to potential P&O Liners, where people can come onshore and refresh and eat and entertain.We have to start thinking a cut above the rest and start getting away from boring traditions. This also would out shine what GPT had in mind.
Comment 12.1.1 30 Aug 2010, 7:52 PM
Wests are running a Balance Fitness Centre in the old Water Board Building and the University is running one in one of the old workshops in Honeysuckle. Seriously as if the council can compete with either of these facilities
Comment 12.1.1.1 31 Aug 2010, 2:32 PM
Have you ever been to a Council run caravan and camping ground? my suggestion is you try. Nothing compares to this style of 'business'. I have never heard of what you are babbling on about. I am x uni myself and the one time I attempted to have a shower there I was made to feel very embarrassed I never saw anyone else showering there at all. You go to Council run grounds you can be guaranteed proper treatment and you don't enter into some elitist run business.I recommend the Council venture into other forms of businesses I will be one of the first to line up I assure you.I suggest you read this properly because I don't intend to answer a reply.
Comment 12.1.1.1.1 31 Aug 2010, 7:02 PM
What does a council Caravan park have to do with Fitness centre in the old DJ's building. I was just pointing out that the council business model could not compete with the professionally run high quality services of Forum and Balance Fitness centre complexes that are already running in the city closer to the proposed uni city campus than the DJ's building. Never scene a NCC run facility that is more tidy or better maintained than anything operated by NUsport or Wests Group but you can dream if you like.
Comment 13 28 Aug 2010, 10:15 AM
Further to my previous comment I believe a Hotel/Motel/convention centre in the D.J 's building would be a big benefit to Newcsatle CBD in the revitilisation process, including a restaurant and upmarket winebar/cafe. The whole building would look great with a revamp & the windows uncovered. I think a big retail concept would not be as lucrative now in this building a hotel/motel is the way to go. The carpark is there already & it wouldn't take much to have it renovated for rooms, etc. The smaller shopfronts in the mall would complement this idea.
Comment 14 29 Aug 2010, 2:21 PM
DJ's building looks like a perfect place for the university to expand/relocate into. Think of the students and lecturers and other staff it would bring to the CBD and who would support businesses around it. Think of all the trades and providores needed to sustain it. And it would be a lot cheaper - and better located - than waiting for the greenfield site at Honeysuckle to become financially possible. We could even see it happen in our lifetime!
University use of the DJ's building could be integrated with other uni activities at the beautiful General Post Office and this would more…
Comment 14.1 29 Aug 2010, 4:54 PM
Great ideas!
Comment 14.2 31 Aug 2010, 7:06 PM
Only issue I see is to get some funding opportunities the Uni would need would be better served by different locations closer to existing facilities in Civic area and without that funding opportunities they could afford to do it.
Comment 14.2.1 1 Sep 2010, 10:12 AM
There are plenty of issues that I can't foresee - and finance is certainly the big one along with the willingness of property owners to allow the lease or sale of their buildings to the uni. The state government owns the Post Office so only the will is required; however, GPT owns the DJs' building: what would it's attitude be?
As for centring everything around Civic - well, we already have a Justice precinct around Bolton Street and the fine old Court House in King Street next to the Police Station.
My vision sees the practical and cost effective use of existing more…
Comment 15 29 Aug 2010, 3:39 PM
Ground Floor: Good food centre/City Markets (on the europeran model) with butchers, game vendors, cheese shops bakery, fishmongers, greeengrocers, patisseries,cakeshops, wine bar, pasta shop, pie shops, foreign food vendors, delicatessens, health foods, cafes and restaurants, etc etc
First Floor: Cinema complex.
Other floors: Residential
It was nonsense to plan a major shopping centre for the eastern end of a peninsula which has so much quality of life to offer for residents and recreation. We don't need another Garden City, or Charlestown Square on such a prime location. If we need such a centre then the right place is at the West End more…
Comment 15.1 29 Aug 2010, 4:55 PM
another fine suggestion.
Comment 15.2 30 Aug 2010, 6:27 PM
Ummm... Newcastle isn't and never has been a 'peninsula'. Seriously people, please grab yourselves a dictionary - it's pretty light reading.
Furthermore, DJs has been there for decades, prior to that, it was Scott's (department store) - the East End of Newcastle was naturally the place to grow this main shopping precinct, as this end of town is where the convict settlement was.
Hunter Street would have extended from here, then came Charlestown Sqaure & Garden City.
Nonsense? No.
It's just how it happened.
Comment 16 29 Aug 2010, 8:18 PM
Dj's, turn the lower floor into a supermarket and residential apartments above. Light rail from wickham and open the North South streets to the waterfront. Reline the pavers in the mall and support those small business owners who have re-established themselves in the CBD. Support our own not out of towners. Newcastle is a town of survivors and reinventors. The CBD is being rejuvenited by enterprising young people with young ideas.
Rugby of old
Comment 17 30 Aug 2010, 6:14 AM
Stop blaming SOR, if you are passionate about the Newcastle CBD, stop whinging and start shopping there, dont shop at Garden City or Charlestown Square shop in Newcastle CBD. Personally I feel the 650 million that the Government needed to spend to rip up a rail line would be better spent in our Hospitals where Ambulances race people to but because of funding have to wait with a patient in an ambulance for hours until a bed is available. If the Government ignors this and invests in Newcastle CBD then that would be totally irresponsible and then what about other centers that are dead like Gosford, Karuah, Maitland CBDs are they then entitled to have their businesses proped up by the taxpayer?
Comment 17.1 30 Aug 2010, 10:50 PM
With all we have to do in this region, isn't it pretty sad that we need yet another place to buy the same dresses and shirts from national brand stores already accessible in Greenhills, Charlestown, Chatswood, Melbourne, Kotara, and Jesmond?
Comment 18 30 Aug 2010, 10:43 AM
The David Jones building would be perfect for a renovation for multi leasing of specialty shop and office areas,"a mall in it self." This premises could house a major tenant. The car park with this building should be maintained. Funding (State or Federal, or both)for the Hunter Street "kerb and guttering" and a proper road alignment must be reintroduced.
Comment 19 30 Aug 2010, 12:39 PM
In my opinion the questions raised by Jeff Corbett in The Herald blog of 27 August 2010 are pertinent and the response by 'Judgedredd' very relevant. A initial minor investment by GPT has successfully neutralized any significant competition by Newcastle in relation to the Charlestown retail precinct for several years into the future. The sad perspective is that boutique businesses like Showcase Theatre were sacrificed.
Comment 19.1 30 Aug 2010, 7:55 PM
Except that minor investment is $100 Million worth of real estate in the CBD isn't exactly minor.
Comment 20 30 Aug 2010, 2:02 PM
What an interesting thread! I counted 123 agrees and 126 disagrees which is very even handed and also a testament to the perseverance of the readers to get through it all. In respect of the topic, it is very hard to make an informed decision when there is no facts to make it on. How many people shop in the CBD because they work there? How many travel to the CBD because it is a shopping precinct. How many people live in the CBD and where do they shop? What is a realistic limit to the private/public infrastructure in terms more…
Comment 20.1 30 Aug 2010, 8:19 PM
Love this first paragraph - it is an excellent point. Does anyone have this information? This could be very easily obtained by shops conducting a survey over say a week, of all the people who make a purchase in a defined area of shops. One question is all that is required 'are you shopping in the CBD today because A: it is near where you live B: is near where you work or C: you have travelled more than 3km to shop here.' the last question needs to have a km limit to make sure that people who live at hamilton and the junction can show that if they are shopping in the CBD they have chosen to do that, rather than shop at closer locations.
Comment 20.2 30 Aug 2010, 8:26 PM
Not a great piece of architecture?? I can't believe the number of people that want to knock David Jones down!! Are you the same people that had the grand Church St mansion Rohallion knocked down and turned into brick walk-up flats?
The inside is drab and could warrant complete gutting and a new structure and the carpark doesn't pay respect to its location whatsoever, but please stop asking for the David Jones building to be knocked down.
It will never be allowed anyway, but the fact that a number of people have suggested its demolition dumbfounds me.
Comment 20.2.1 30 Aug 2010, 10:58 PM
Perhaps I was a bit harsh. It isn't great architecture but it isn't rubbish either. And recycling would be economically sound - tourist accommodation would make sense. But it would be nice to have some green space on Hunter Street.
Comment 20.2.1.1 31 Aug 2010, 5:50 PM
Yeah, I'd love to see a plaza similar to Wheeler Pl, however around twice the size, with heavy rail underneath and/or light rail running through it. I think that it could link the mall area to the foreshore, and be the focus of events and festivals.
I strongly believe that a view corridor from the harbour to Chch Cathedral is vital, relying on removal of the penis tower and adjustments to Queens Wharf. It would contribute to a grand planned-city kind of look, in contrast with the completely unplanned look that makes Newcastle what it is. Think trocadero in Paris.
Comment 21 30 Aug 2010, 2:15 PM
I think many cities go through a period of devaluation before they are reborn. Look at the old "slums" of sydney - surrey hills,paddington. Or the docks in hobart. Let it happen naturally. Put the building on the market - but have the rule that it must be used within the year, or ownership reverts. Loosen up the planning - who cares what the actual eventual use is, as long as it is viable. If you live in the mid city then you've got to expect city life - noise, industry, prostitutes, religious fervour - all the things that make a city vibrant. The price will eventually fall low enough so that someone will buy it and use it. If no one buys, demolish and plant veggie gardens so that we grow some food in our city again, and people living in the nearby apartments can have some place to garden if they want. Let the market decide.
Comment 22 30 Aug 2010, 2:25 PM
Newcastle can be revitalised! But we need a different approach. Definately light rail into town as we have so much happening on the foreshore we need alternate transport options. We need something unique in the Newcastle CBD. eg The Rocks in Sydney. David Jones could become another Paddy's Market or a store like Wal Mart in America. The shops from from Darby Street down needs to be made into housing. We do not need another big shopping complex I am happy GPT plan did not go ahead.
Comment 23 30 Aug 2010, 3:57 PM
It seems to me this city is crying out for a boutique hotel, maybe something like the "Henry Jones Art Hotel" on the dock in Hobart. The DJs building couldfill this gap, perhaps.And what about sending the rail line underground after Wickham. Yes it would be expensive, but it may be worth it.
Comment 24 30 Aug 2010, 6:15 PM
The best use would be to turn it into a wonderful museum - documenting the history of the decay and deterioration of the once-great city of Newcastle!!
There's even plenty of car parking (unlike around the new museum site)
It's an obvious answer, isnt' it?!
Comment 25 30 Aug 2010, 8:36 PM
Allow part of it to be used by Renew Newcastle as an event space. Fashion shows, dance studio space, music video shoots, rehearsal room, makeshift theatre, intermittent use as a makeshift nightclub and venue. Entry could be through the DJs loading dock. How very Newcastle. It would have a huge quirk factor - good for tourists and invigorating for the young people who will run aforementioned projects. For those who don't trust young people, don't worry, it only has to be short-term.
I also like the irony of having Djs in DJs.
Comment 26 30 Aug 2010, 10:44 PM
Hi. The David Jones building is one of the last large spaces available in Newcastle. USE it.
This city is desperately short of large suitable live performance venues. A recent project I worked on could only identify two with suitable stage and audience facilities.
I see other comments that I largely agree with, that shopping malls in general are not beneficial to many people except major stores and management companies like Westfield, Centro or GPT.
Big companies like David Jones and GPT don't move/stay in to an area to 'revitalise' a CBD. They are looking for a way to get you to more…
Comment 27 30 Aug 2010, 11:09 PM
A great debate indeed and some great suggestions. What does the Newcastle CBD really need? Strong decisive leadership from council. Perhaps that is where we need our first big change.
Comment 28 31 Aug 2010, 7:11 PM
In a coffee table book of Newcastle photos over the years it had a residents group back in the 50's or 60's against a supermarket development similar to what was build at Waratah now Waratah village. They wanted houses not shops and they fought hard to stop the development and won the government agreed to build houses there.
The development location was corner of Beaumont Street and Glebe Road, Hamilton South
All I can say to people is be careful what you wish for you might just get it.
Comment 29 1 Sep 2010, 2:22 PM
give the DJs building to Renew Newcastle - they seem to be the only group consistantly achieving anything interesting
Comment 30 4 Sep 2010, 7:26 AM
Seems like a great place for a David Jones store! The bigger picture is more important.....lets get access to the forshore, let's get a uni campus happening.....lets ensure inner city living...lets develop and promote key precincts such as education, law, cultural, dining, business and retail precincts.......lets develop a targeted tenanting strategy to attract unique new retail, dining and professional services...lets develop a marketing strategy that promotes precinct brands...lets develop experiences as opposed to events.....lets ensure all cultural activity Civic Theatre, Museum, art gallery, maritime museum, film, live music etc is branded within an overarching brand and promoted via an integrated marketing plan.....lets ensure the CBD is promoted via an integrated marketing plan.......lets make sure business owners and property owners are aware of their role in creating a vibrant destination and do it! Lets not dabble with to many fingers in the pie...develop a plan and do it.
Comment 31 21 Oct 2010, 3:09 PM
Having been in this great town for only 4 years or so, 1 thing has become apparent........ Newcastle suffers from a debilitating and rare form of paralysis. This paralysis is more commonly known as Newcastle City Council and is caused by severe and prolonged complacency. To compound this condition, Newcastle also suffers from environmental conditions that not only compliment this complacency but actively promote it. These environmental factors are commonly known as the NSW Labor government.
In all seriousness, in close to 4 years, there has hour after hour of rhetoric spewed about the place on what we should or more…
Comment 32 25 Oct 2010, 2:59 PM
University accommodation, lecture theatres, tutorial rooms, computer labs, cafes, small diverse retail outlets ... are all viable options.
The building itself (or at least it's overall heritage value) should be retained, whilst allowing for the renewal of the site, and by association the Newcastle CBD.
The rail line debate continues ... perhaps in the interim we could 'open up' more level crossings for pedestrian and cyclists so that Honeysuckle and Hunter St can be more integrated, without ripping up a valuable community asset. I predict the usual risk averse, nanny state fears for public safety from such a 'radical' idea, but surely crossing a rail track is safer than going out on a Fri or Sat night anywhere in Newcastle.
The objective for the inner city should be to revitalize the CBD, but with a diverse approach to ensure that all our eggs are not in the one basket (i.e. the GPT over development), and that such development/renewal is not conditional upon the removal of public infrastructure.
Comment 33 3 Nov 2010, 12:55 PM
The mall is now accessed by cars and it is not safe any more, I have to hold my child's hand at all time and I remember been able to walk freely with no worries. Please make the city family friendly. Safe for children to play and walk along parents. Newcastle with the beautiful beaches is blessed with an amazing opportunity to attract families, people of all ages and turists. The Mall is the key to a successfull attractive Newcastle. Caffes, restaurants, children play grounds, places for people to enjoy a picnic or take away food. David Jones building can be used to promote this, the car park could be used for visitor to park there and then walk along the mall. Gosford could be up to some extent a good example.
Comment 34 3 Nov 2010, 3:19 PM
I'm all for a new modern Newcastle.
However i would like to see the facade of the old David Jones building retained as it has a lot of character. The inside of the building is another matter. At ground level a commercial shop frontage is essential. on the upper levels it is not so important.
Buildings that should be demolished include the where food court and council car parking is off Hunter street mall. In its way create a public stair/view corridor that connects the history of the city (the cathedral) to the modern Newcastle (on the Harbour side).
Imagine cafes and art stores spilling out into landings from which from one end you can see the cathedral at one end and the harbour side activities at the other. It would be magical. This could become an attraction for tourism and new shop owners and developers.
see the Bilbao plaza, Spain.
Comment 35 25 Nov 2010, 5:38 AM
Although late to the discussion, I think a good use for the DJ's site is more serviced apartments on the upper floors, with smaller niche retail/cafes on the lower level.
I just hope DJ's remove the hideous pink plywood covering the windows on the upper storey floors !
Comment 36 8 Jan 2011, 8:29 AM
Turn David jones into a city carpark, build a shopping and homemaker centre near wickam station straddling the rail line linking hunter st and honey suckle incorporating many of the west end businesses. Shorten hunter St retail and turn into mod-high density living and open spaces. Replace rail line with canal turning Newcastle station into cafe district and gondola port. Return trams back to hunter St linking wickam station shopping precint, the junction, hamilton and Newcastle station?
